Why the Best Chefs Source Local with Chef Daniel Roy of the Jim and Neesie

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MT: Hey everyone, welcome to Seasonal, Season 1, Episode 5. I hope everyone's feeling great and not going bar hopping or clubbing or pretending like the Coronavirus doesn't exist. Please, please. But you guys, I know you're all so excited for my weekly fermentation update. That's right. It's another week of so much fun with fermentation. I know you guys tuned in just for this. But anyway, this week, I didn't make any kombucha sadly, because you guys know I love it so much. But I did make two very sad loaves of sourdough bread. I'm realizing more and more how much temperature actually affects the rate of fermentation and the behavior of yeast cells. So I'm usually baking in my apartment in Miami, which I keep out around, like, I don't know, a normal person 72 to 74 degrees. And the loaves This week were baked in my parents house, which they notoriously keep 81 degrees and it's so hot. So as you guys might remember, last week, I created the most beautiful loaves I've ever seen. And I was so excited. And I was like, Yes, every week from now on, I know to do. All my loves are going to be perfect. So I did the exact same thing that I did last week using the same time, the same ingredients, the same everything. And they were over proved, and they came out flat as hell because the environment was different and it was warmer. So yeah, I was really sad when they came out of the oven. I should have known better. But you know what, at least I'm learning right guys, my family thoroughly enjoyed them and said they were delicious. But every time I looked at them and just made me upset, but anyway, hopefully I'll have some better luck next week. I'm trying again, I can't give up. Also, I just want to mention to everybody to please please show your support for the podcast by heading to anchor.fm searching seasonal and clicking support so I can keep this podcast alive and going. And I will also have a link up in the show notes so you can access it there too. Anyway, today I'm very excited because I will be chatting with Chef Daniel Roy of the Jim and Neesie. I really wanted to talk to him because he's very involved in the local food movement, and he's involved with local farms in the area. And he really values the importance of highlighting local produce, so sit back, relax. Don't go out too. bars and let's get to chatting with Chef Daniel Roy.

MT  0:00  Chef Daniel Roy is the Executive Chef at the Jim and Neesie and you might recognize him from his work at Stubborn Seed, Matador Room, and Habitat and he is known and recognized in the area for incorporating local, seasonal produce into his menus. So, hi Chef, thank you so much for joining us today.

DR  0:20  How you doing? Thank you for having me. 

MT  0:21  Of course! So can you start off by telling us a bit about the Jim and Neesie and what inspires you when you're creating a menu?

DR  0:32  Of course. So the Jim and Neesie, conceptually was, you know, based around like a European power couple that host really good parties and one of them does really good drinks and then you know, the other one does really good food, like our opening director of bars was with Broken Shaker and opened all the Broken Shaker. So if you like tableside cocktails, and then on the food end, you know, I like to say that it's product driven, and it's global cuisine. I don't really like to be stuck in one style of food. I like to keep it very open and keep it very fluid and moving. And then when it comes to creating the menu, I mean, I think obviously number one is balance. You know, you need to have some meats and fish and seafood  and I do a lot of vegetable forward dishes and then being half Italian. there must be pasta. It's so soothing, so kind of rotate using pasta or gnocchis. So I think balance and, and kind of hitting every note where you know, when guests come in, it's easy to find something that will hopefully enjoy.

MT  1:28  And what they're in the mood for. So I kind of wanted to ask you this, too-- When would you say that you first became aware of the importance of sourcing local products? And, would you say it was a distinct shift that you made at one point or had you always been sourcing local from the beginning of your culinary career?

DR  1:50  So it well it began when I got into high end cooking, you know, so I worked for Jeremy Ford, the Top Chef winner, for about 8 years and I started with him at 3030 Ocean and the chef that created 3030 Ocean, you know, was a big part of the farm to table movement in South Florida in general. So, you know, that's when I got into high end cooking is when, you know, I realized and was shown the huge difference in locally grown products, and then just the importance of them as well.

MT  2:17  Yeah. And was it more of a difference in flavor that they were focused on or in quality? Or both?

DR  2:25  All the above. I think it's sourcing local supports a local farm, but obviously it needs to taste good and have good quality for it to make sense for everybody. You know, so I think all three or three kind of go hand in hand and are extremely important.

MT  2:38  Yeah. And it brings that whole other aspect to it. If people are trying to support you know, the local food movement and support their local farms and they know eating at your restaurant is kind of an indirect way of them supporting their local farmers. So if people are into that kind of environmental, economical aspect of things, then they feel good about eating that food. But okay, so since you mentioned this a little bit already, what are some of the local farms that you work with? And what do they specialize in? 

DR  3:10  You know, like when I started with Jeremy, that's the first farm that we really uses was Swank Farms. So which up by West Palm, and I really love to use their micro greens, you know, they come still on the root, so obviously the longevity is a lot better. A lot of their delicate greens like their Arrowhead spinaches and their lettuces are all really good and their tomatoes are really good. They're kind of really diverse, you know, where some farms are really specialized in certain things. They do a good job of quite a few things. And then as I progressed in my career and was involved in more ordering and things like that, I got introduced to Paradise Farms. So I use Paradise Farms a lot and they're kind of in a co-op where they communicate with a lot of other farms so I kind of deal with directly with them and get other products from all over the state.

MT  3:52  I see. Yeah, those are great.

DR  3:55  Yeah, I live in Miami on the mainland. There's a newer company Box Greens, and they do indoor growing. 

MT  4:02  Yeah, I've had one of their boxes I think they call it the happiness blend. And it's delicious. It's super crispy and like full of flavor.

DR  4:12   Yeah, is delicate and it's nice. So you know, we're just kind of started working together before everything happened recently with a Corona virus. But hopefully we can do some more things for sure over the summer because like I said, they grow in house like inside. 

MT  4:26  Yeah, so it's like all year round.

DR  4:28  Exactly. So as of right now, we know that all these delicate things in Florida ain't gonna last right now with this heat.

MT  4:33  Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted to ask you about. So since our primary growing season in Miami is ending, and we're kind of shifting into like that summer, tropical fruit season. How do you account for that? And how do you adjust to that through your menus? And do you try to incorporate the tropical fruits into your menus or maybe your like desserts, your cocktails, or how do you kind of adjust for that change?

DR  4:59  Yeah, we were going from spring to summer you know and bring it's kind of like my favorite I just love all the green things. And with the summer fruits, everything we do is seasonal you know we're constantly changing and evolving food entering menus here like the bar manager here is really great about that we kind of collaborate together and kind of cross utilize products. In the past, for me it's like all desserts are always seasonal for us and then more like in the raw fish section you know like right now we'll probably use passionfruit and some other local like lychee in salads, so I've really evolved into more local fruits into my food across different, like I said in the salads with fish it's it's super easy to trying to use it with like pork and finding other things to pair it with has you know been a fun challenge and then obviously kind of everything's on hold but we look forward to getting getting back in the kitchen here shortly and hopefully be able to use some of that. You know, another thing we do is I got turned on to Zellwood corn. Zellwood  is right outside of Orlando, probably the best corn I've ever had.

MT  5:56  Oh my goodness. I've never heard of that either. Really, really good. It's the it's the farm there that they have?

DR  6:00  I think the town there is literally called Zellwood and they come about twice a year, 2 grow seasons but it's really good.

MT  6:07  And you access that through Paradise Farms?

DR  6:10  That one, so I like to use a lot of purveyors so I use Fresh Point and Mr. Greens. So Fresh Point usually does a good job helping me source that one like that rep I've used a lot of my reps I've used for over eight years so they kind of know when certain things come around. Hey, you know we do a really cool soup with the corn and we make stock from the cobs and then you know, we cook it we use a little bit curry and they make like a Harissa Chai cream. I think it's important you know, local, just supporting locals is big, big company, sometimes really disappointing as it goes to the grocery store and getting very generic very commodity out of season products when it comes to produce.

MT  6:45  And people think that's what it's supposed to taste like. 

DR  6:49  Which is absolutely nothing, yeah.

MT  6:50  Yeah, exactly. For me. I kind of have a unique perspective because I'm from Tampa, Florida, but I've been living In Miami for around five years or so. Just the difference between those two cities, even though they're not that far apart from each other geographically, everything I've been exposed to in Miami is completely different than what we have going on in Tampa and restaurants and farmers markets in Tampa. So it's cool that people can come to Miami and they think they can get the culture through maybe visiting Little Haiti or doing certain things but then no one realizes that you can experience the culture just from looking at a menu of a chef that uses local products and they could really taste the difference in where they are. The flavors in Miami are so unique.

DR  7:40  Yeah, I mean, I was I was born on the west coast, but I grew up in Tallahassee, so

MT  7:44  Oh! I went to FSU.

DR  7:47  Yeah, Go Noles. Yeah, I grew up there. 

MT  7:51  Well, I liked it for for the time, like the portion of my life that I was there.

DR  7:55  Yeah, exactly. I love to go to games, but I can only stay so long.

MT  7:59  Hey, Yeah, like I'm done on Sunday afternoon. I'm like, get me out of here.

DR  8:04  Yeah, the black holes keep you for a long time. 

MT  8:06  Yeah, but um, okay, so you're from there.

DR  8:11  So I was born in Vegas, but I grew up in Tallahassee.

MT  8:13  Oh, okay. And what brought you to Miami?

DR  8:17  No, I was the Marine Corps boot camp, I think got out of the Marine Corps and moved to New York, where my dad was living. And then when I came back from New York, I went back to Tallahassee and was like, yeah, I can't do this. And I have some family down here. And my dad then came down here. So that's kind of what brought me down. And then along that path, I got a degree in computers. And I was close to where 3030 Ocean was where I met Jeremy and then got inside the hotel and then got to finally get with him within maybe six months of being there, and the high energy competitiveness that comes with high end cooking was just like, yeah, this is for me.

MT  8:48  Yeah, I saw that. You don't recommend culinary school. And I've heard so many people say that because I also used to work in restaurants and I've always wanted to go to culinary school. I'm a I'm a dietitian. But I've always just kind of wanted to transition over to culinary side and go to culinary school and every single person in the restaurant that I work to it that I asked told me not to. And just to get hands on experience.

DR  9:14  Yeah, I mean, like, you know, and so not discredit schools or the teachers. But to be honest, the best chefs in the world aren't cooking in schools. That's plain and simple. That's fact. That's not an opinion. That's fact. And that's I did one semester of culinary school at the Art Institute in Fort Lauderdale. And I'd already been cooking. I've been cooking since I was eight. You know, like eggs and things like that, like I grew up in a home where we cook like, neither one of my parents are chefs, but we never grew up eating, you know, frozen dinners, you know? And then like, just look at like the cost. If you look at cost versus value, like to spend the four years the first four years I spent in high end cooking. Please, you can't compare that in four years in college.

MT  9:56  Oh, yeah, for sure.

DR  9:57  And and I think it's I don't You know, if you want to be the best, you gotta surround yourself around the best. And you know, we've spent two years under Jean-Georges and, you know, and I went in train with them in New York a little bit. You know, and those experiences are, I think, a little bit harder to come by. Yeah. You know, and everyone has their own path. You know, don't get me wrong, but I just, if I have to make a decision, I would say don't go. Go find the best go find the best kitchen in your city. And knock on the door and be like, whatever it takes, let's go. 

MT  10:26  Because I mean, I still yeah, I still definitely want to go to culinary school. But um, it's just also that whole aspect of the work ethic that you get from, like, when I first moved to Miami, I was a busser. And like, a really popular, very busy bar slash kitchen. And that work ethic. Oh, my God. It's like, you can't learn that anywhere. It's It's insane.

DR  10:51  Yeah, I mean, in culinary school, they teach you one dish at a time. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like that's the that's the way it works. That ain't the way it works in the real life.

MT  10:59  Yeah, no. To be cranking out, yeah, very fast paced.

DR  11:03  You know, and I just think like the details, you know, the finesse.

MT  11:07  The language, it's a completely different language that you have to learn. But yeah, it's it's, I kind of fell in love with that environment to just the relationships between everyone like everyone just kind of jokes around and it's really fun and it could get super intense. Yeah, they wanted to put me in the front of the house and I was like, No, I'm gonna be a busser because I want to be back here because it's so much more fun.

DR  11:31  Yeah, we're a little different. We're a little different in the back. Yeah.

MT  11:33  Oh, my God. It's like, completely different back there.

DR  11:36  Yeah, I mean, I think I mean, I think even you know, just in the restaurant industry, like I said, like, you know, my mom's in New Orleans and my dad's from New York and I'm from Las Vegas. So like, I come from different walks of life and, and that's what defines hospitality industry. You know, there's not one type of person or you know, one age bracket or you know, it's so diverse and because of that, you get to learn so much. You know, like I learned, you know, I learned from dishwashers I learned from prep cooks and others. Love it, you know, it's it's my obligation to teach them as I hate to say it's my job cuz then it's like a chore but the ability in turn to learn from them and you know, to learn how to make greol and to learn how to make mofongo you know, because these kitchen like, I jsut love that, there's nothing better.

MT  12:14  Yeah, and you're in such a closed in space with them all day. So it's inevitable to pick up things from each other and learn things and yeah, everyone's willing to teach you and work together. It's it could be addicting to be back there for sure. But okay, so like I said, I come from a background in nutrition, and I understand the benefits of eating local from a nutritional standpoint. So I kind of wanted you to tell us from a chef's perspective, I know you mentioned like the flavor and qualities are better, but what's, what's the importance of using local produce and other food products in general that are sourced locally from kind of from your perspective, because I don't from an economic side because you're running a business So what would you say is the benefit?

DR  13:01  I mean, I think it's a balance of a lot of things because at times, I think it's very difficult to only source local products. You know what I mean? Because the quality is to be there. And, you know, obviously doing anything in season is gonna have a better nutritional value and just a better flavor. But it's a balance, you know, and being lucky enough to to tour multiple farms and Homestead in West Palm and go and not just look around, like go and get dirty and plant spikes and steaks for the tomato plants and to get a glimpse of what they put into to then get it to us to then put it on your table is a lot, you know, as much as chefs and all of us work like getting up at four or five in the morning. And you know, like the amount of work that goes into it, you gain a lot of respect for that. And a lot of farms that are local and small, don't make a lot of money. So it's more about the passion for them, which as a chef, if you can't relate to that and want to support and help grow that then you're in the wrong industry. You know, like I'm sorry, but like, Why else are we chefs because we're passionate about feeding people in the hospitality industry, you know, like, I cook at home for myself, I probably cook enough food for people, like I'm used to cooking for people and that's what we do, like we entertain. And food makes people so happy and it brings them back to a place you know, whether it's a smell or you know, you're reminding your grandma's house or your mom's on so whenever it can be like, it's just it's such a powerful thing. You know, and like I said, the amount of time and effort that farmers put into it is like can avoid that and you know, and you find ways from a financial perspective to make it make sense you know, you do right portion sizes, you store it properly, so it doesn't go bad as fast You know, there's ways to make it work and it's just, you know, it's a full time job.

MT  14:37  Yeah, for sure. Because yeah, there's all these different preservative tactics like you can pickle stuff or ferment, which I have just been experimenting with, which I love, but also the quality of their produce directly impacts the success of your dishes. So it's like, obviously you want them to succeed and you want them. You want to have good inputs. To get good output, so you want to work with them and support them.

DR  15:03  And it makes my life so much easier.

MT  15:04  Exactly.

DR  15:05  All I do is add a little acid add a little texture. Delicious.

MT  15:09  Yeah, any vegetable steamed with some olive oil, lemon juice and salt is just so good. Really simple. 

DR  15:18  Well, when it's, you know, like when you when you get a tomato and it's peak freshness, and you slice it. It's literally olive oil, salt, black pepper. Oh, yeah, that's it. And it's amazing. Good. Yeah. When you buy one from a grocery store in December, it's like water.

MT  15:34  Yeah it's bland and hard. Yeah. It's like nothing. I know. Yeah. So I'm just that's kind of what I'm trying to get across is just how people understand because so many people live in Miami and they don't really understand that we have such a present agricultural community in Miami and nobody understands that we're lucky in that we have access to all these rare and exotic fruits and produce that other areas of the world don't have access to and they taste better. I came home to see my family and I brought them lychees and passion fruits and a mamey and they're like, what is this? And they they just loved it. They're like, Oh my god, this is so good. It's so flavorful. But I just want to spread awareness of the importance of that, because it's also Yeah, local seasonal produce is so much more nutrient dense. So there's so many benefits to it.

DR  16:26  Yeah, it's just especially with the with the movement just as a country and as a population as human population moving towards more vegetable forward eating. I think it's very important to be educated about it. 

MT  16:37  Yeah, so if someone tries a vegetable from a supermarket and they don't like it, they might never eat it again. So it's like, oh, we just lost them. Like they need to eat this good stuff that's right in front of them.  

DR  16:48  Yeah, I'm big on that. Like when we do tastings and things like that. Like because I like to get input from the staff, you know, and being in a hotel, I go to the front desk, or housekeeping and I'm like Oh try this, ya know, and then when people are like, Oh, what is it? For me its like, are you allergic to anything? No. Alright then eat it. People perceive things like immediately, you know, like, if I give you, I give you shrimp. They go like oh I hated shrimp because I had it at Red Lobster. Yeah. Well you had a Red Lobster which is disgusting, it was imported from Thailand, like no wonder it was disgusting. If you get shrimp from Key West, cooked properly not tasting like rubber. Wow, you know?

MT  17:26  Yeah, it's different. Yeah, totally different. I know I get that too because it's like, yeah, some people don't like eggplant because of the consistency. Like yeah, or it's bitter because it wasn't cooked properly or salted or bitterness wasn't removed from it. So they're like, Oh, I don't like eggplant. Yeah, but anyway, Okay, so how I know you visit a lot of farms and do tours of farms and help them out but how can people just in the community take better advantage of the local produce and support the vendors and what are what do you think are the best ways for people to have access to these delicious products that you have access to as a chef.

DR  18:06  I think a lot of farms here in Miami doing a really good job of getting their products into the farmer's markets, because there are some not good farmers markets in Miami to be honest, but then there are quite a few that have a really good selection of, you know, the local things. Some of them are just stuff it looks like it came from a grocery store.

MT  18:22  Oh yeah, yeah I think I know which one you're talking about. Yeah, I'm not gonna name names but...

DR  18:26  Yeah, exactly. I'm not here for that. 

MT  18:28  But some of them are directed as tourists.

DR  18:30  You know, where it's, you know, like doing a little bit of research, which I think is just like anything else is enlightening yourself, you know, there's so many movements going on right now. And, you know, it's how you're gonna make the best informed decision, you know, by doing some research.

MT  18:42  I know and just make sure that you go to a farmers market just talk to the vendor, see if they know what they're talking about. Yeah, ask questions. Taste things, once the farmers markets open back up.

DR  18:53  Yeah, hopefully soon.

MT  18:54  Yeah, hopefully soon. But yeah, I got I think I bought an avocado like I bought like a mango or something a few years ago from a farmers market in Miami and and then I brought it home and there was a sticker on it that said, like from Mexico or yeah  imported from like some other country I'm like, Ughhh he stuped me. Yeah, but but yeah, just be aware and be present and go to the farmers market and don't be on your phone and be meeting people and talking to people and there's some really sweet people there that would love to talk to you.

DR  19:26  And yeah another thing is, is the sticker on on fruit and vegetables, do research because there's actually a lot more data on that sticker than you think those numbers and letters mean a lot of things you know, was there pesticides involved and things like that. Like I think a lot of people don't know that. To be honest, I didn't even know that until, you know, maybe six months ago I was like I didn't never know that that was that much data on the sticker like besides just you know where it came from.

MT  19:49  So people can look up the number, the serial number?

DR  19:52  It's not a number but you can do some research on a sticker and then it can give you that every one of them but some of them can give you a little bit more information on the product itself. I believe it's the amount of numbers on there, I give it four or five or nine dictates if it was growing organically or pesticides. And also, there's actually quite a bit of info just from the number itself, the amount of numbers and then I think the first number between both. 

MT  20:16  Oh so the amount of numbers.

DR  20:17  Yeah, like, I'm sure, like, I'm pretty sure like someone showed me on Google. So I'm sure like, you can get exactly what each meaning means.

MT  20:26  That's really good to know. Because just because there's a sticker doesn't mean that it's like, you shouldn't eat it, you know.

DR  20:33  I mean yeah it gives you a lot of  information, you know, like, if you have your cell phone on you. You pull up your phone in the grocery store, you type in the number of and see what it says, it's super easy. Yeah. And then once you know, you start to build that then you consistently know you know, and you're like, Alright, look for this number.

MT  20:44  Yeah. That's really good info for people to have because yeah, it's like, I'm not. I'm not against supermarkets. I mean, people should shop at the supermarkets too, but just be a little more informed of what you're eating and what you're getting.

DR  20:58  You know, Just like anything else, you'd be a little bit more picky about which grocery store you go to. Which ones are showing that they actually care about the product they carry and having an impact on the environment I think are all extremely important.

MT  21:09  Yeah. And also something else I just want people to be aware of is not everything from the local Miami farmers markets are necessarily from Miami because we can't grow everything all year round in Miami, so don't be turned off if you get some strawberries that are from Georgia or something. Just talk to the farmer and ask so it's okay sometimes. 

DR  21:33  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, like when it comes to like stone fruit like peaches, they come from Georgia, but there are some in Florida that aren't bad. 

MT  21:42  Yeah. Stone fruit season is coming up and I'm so excited because I love stone fruit. But yeah, they're not going to be perfectly ripe if you can come from a supermarket in Miami. So yeah, sometimes they get them from Georgia or from the other coast and they're delicious. So I kind of wanted to ask you out curiosity. How has COVID been like, what's your guys's status with the restaurant and COVID? Are you guys open? Are you? Are you just doing takeout? Like what's the deal with the Jim and Neesie?

DR  22:12  So it's a little bit tougher for us then then probably a lot of people a lot of other spaces in Miami because we're, we're a global brand, I mean, we're 13 properties in Europe. We're six in the United States, you know, and we have two properties in Italy that have been closed for months, so you know, the financial impact has been huge. So, you know, when you think about the, and then like, I have, obviously being in a city for you know, seven years cooking like a lot of relationships, so we communicate with each other. What are you doing in sales and what are you doing? And when you look at the numbers, like compared to us as a brand, like it's not, it's a drop in the bucket, you know, so we own the Freehand brands, so we own Broken Shaker as well, so we opened them this weekend, and we did, you know, we did solid and we should be opening the Freehand hotel probably this week, and then should be opening Generator. I'll be the first of Julyish. and kind of see about probably Jim and Neesie being around then, if not sooner. You can feel like things are starting to pick back up and I guess go in the direction of the normal even though I don't know if normal is the word to use anymore. 

MT  23:13  Exactly. Well,yeah, I'm just worried that with all these things opening in Miami that we'll see a spike again but hopefully not. But I wouldn't be surprised if we see the numbers spike a bit. But um, but Okay, so that's interesting. So right now you guys are well, Broken Shaker's open but social distancing is happening.  And then the Jim and Neesie is closed for now.

DR  23:37  Yes. 

MT  23:38  Okay, Chef. Well, thank you so, so much for your time. I really learned a lot and I really appreciate having you on.

DR  23:45  Oh, no problem. Thank you. 

MT  23:47  Of course. Have a great rest of your day. Thanks so much again. 

DR  23:49  Thank you. 

MT  23:50  Okay, no problem. Bye.